Juliet Morris
Sam is an introvert and an advocate for introverts. And that’s really intriguing because I’m imagining your conversation and could go quite deep. I’d love to hear more about that.
Sam Sheppard
Thank you, Juliet, and thank you, first of all for inviting me to be on your podcast. So yes, I do describe myself as an introvert who advocates for introverts, and by that I mean, this year I launched my own business with the aim of empowering my fellow introverts to develop authentic confidence. And by that I mean, they can achieve their goals without having to change who they are or without having to pretend to be more extroverted to succeed and also and this is my primary focus right now. I’m on a mission to change the workplace bias towards introversion to help achieve intersectional inclusivity and equity, and that actually all stems from the work the work that I did on I Am remarkable which is where we met.
Juliet Morris
Oh, that sounds fascinating. So I can’t wait to get started in this conversation. Tell me a little bit about your experience then. As an introvert.
Sam Sheppard
So as an introvert, I have felt that I didn’t fit in my whole life, both in society in general and in the workplace. So even though I’m not sure that I was consciously aware as a child, that I was an introvert that there was a name for this and there were other people who were like me. I was aware that I was in some way different. And I felt maybe perhaps I was a little bit weird. I didn’t fit it may be felt a bit awkward and that had a significant impact on things like my confidence, my son’s sense of self, my identity. And then as I navigated through life and through the workplace, I felt very challenged by a traditional workplace and where you’re working and I didn’t feel in a lot of the roles that I’ve had particularly valued or recognised. So it has had a significant impact on me, but I’ve learnt that actually, for me, introversion has been my superpower and it’s just really having that understanding of what it meant to be an introvert and why the strengths that I have actually are valuable and why they’re not being recognised, but how I can change that and how I’ve been able to change that.
Juliet Morris
Are you open to sharing a little bit about how that showed up and in childhood and then as you entered into work?
Sam Sheppard
Yes absolutely. So as a child, I mean, first of all, for context, I’m also an only child of two only children parents. My childhood was quite solitary anyway, just by the nature of the fact that I’d a very small family and I was around adults, as well, but it was an additional facet, but I loved being alone. As a child. I really enjoyed my own company. I could entertain myself without any toys just my mind. But I did really enjoy reading. I would write my own stories and illustrate the and just quite happily occupy myself and I much preferred having one close friend rather than a group of friends. I always felt very uncomfortable and overstimulated in groups. My parents would bless them every year organise a birthday party for me, and every year would cry, and they thought that I was just over excited, but actually, I was overstimulated and there were just too many people for comfort. I would much prefer to just talk to a lower key event to celebrate my birthday. And yeah, so it was it was a time where I struggled with those social interactions and things like group work in school, you know, I was very good academically. But when I was asked to work in a group, I felt out of my element, I felt uncomfortable. And as I’ve mentioned, it did make me very aware that I was in some way different to a lot of my peers.
Juliet Morris
And did you recognise that at the time or was it just is it something where you just felt weird until you became more self-aware?
Sam Sheppard
I think the latter I think I was. So in combination with being an introvert and an only child. I was also very, very shy and quite socially anxious because those things are often associated with introversion. But they’re not necessarily intuitive traits, right? I had everything. And so, it meant that from a very young age, I lacked confidence and self-belief and it meant that it took me actually quite a significant portion of my life, to accept myself and value myself. And understand that actually, I wasn’t weird. I just think differently to some other people. And as I mentioned, there are other people who also think like, this is not just me. And that was very reassuring when I had that realisation definitely.
Juliet Morris
And at what point did you have that realisation?
Sam Sheppard
Do you know I’ve been reflecting upon this? I’m not absolutely sure. I know I was definitely an adult when I had this realisation. But as for pinpointing the moment when I understood the concept of introversion and that other people were like myself, I don’t know I do know that as I progressed into adulthood, like me through my university years, I did that and meet different types of people, and so naturally understood that there were lots of different types of people and you know, outside of my hometown, actually, there were people who thought like me, and who struggled with small talk and you know, who prefer to be quiet. But I think I might have actually been perhaps even mid-20s, or later than that, when I discovered introversion. I suspect it was something along the lines of one of the Myers Briggs tests that I was I was to take applying for jobs, something of that nature. I’m an INFJ. And I think it might have been through something like that, because when I came out as an INFJ, for the first time, I do remember thinking, okay, so you know, this explains a lot about the way I think and the way I behave. So yeah, it was it was quite late on.
Juliet Morris
And that realisation then would have taken you into work and you worked with some large organisations. So how did you find your feet in that space?
Sam Sheppard
Well, actually, I started my career in teaching, and then moved through to working as a senior lecturer in education as the university and then finally moved into the corporate space. So I’ve worked in quite a few sectors, and the consistent theme in all of them. Was that I did feel unhappy, I felt very challenged in the workplace. Because I felt that the workplace wasn’t set up. For someone like me, which is when I mentioned the bias towards extraversion at the start. That’s really what I’m talking about. So I had to learn to find my own way. Because traditional work and workplaces hasn’t really aligned and what I found is regardless of sector, I was a quiet individual, even though I’ve always exceeded my target so you know, whatever areas of focus I’ve had in any role that I’ve had haven’t necessarily received in a lot of workplaces, the recognition or the value for that, and often the recognition and the value is going to my more extroverted loaded colleagues which has been difficult. So for me navigating through my career, it’s been very much a process of me, learning about myself. And using that understanding and that learning to tap into what authentically is going to work for me, what do I really want and how do I make that happen?
Juliet Morris
I particularly like the phrase you use, find your own way, that absolutely resonates with me. How did you do that? How did you find your own way in what was an extroverted institution or workplace environment?
Sam Sheppard
It’s, it’s been a journey. So, one particular memory that stands out is there was a period of time where I applied for a management trainee with a very large bank. Well, it was the insurance sector of the bank. And through that application, I experienced my first assessment centres and if you’ve ever experienced an assessment centre, yes, quite suddenly awful. So as you can imagine, you know, some of the exercises there were very uncomfortable for me. I was absolutely fine giving a presentation because if I’m talking about something meaningful, I can present that’s not a problem. I was fine with, you know, more problem solving based activities, but one of the activities was she get into teams and navigate an obstacle course on big wooden skis that everybody on the team responding on, apart from the team leader, and the team leader was the person to give the directions or provide the strategy, and they chose those roles just arbitrarily, and I got team leader. And at that point, I’d never experienced much in the way of leadership other than unofficially, so for example, at university I inadvertently ended up running a society, but in a work capacity, I’ve never had a leadership role. And I really felt at that point out of my depth because it felt like the others at the assessment centre were all very extroverted. So when we’d had group discussions, they were all dominating the discussions. They seem so confident and so charismatic. And I really had impostor syndrome in that moment, and just felt how on earth and I’m competitive too, so you know, failing wasn’t an option. How on earth am I going to make this work? And so the only thing I could think of doing was asking the team members that I’d been assigned, who were the ones having to stand on these wooden skis to like try out the equipment and just tell me what they were experiencing to decide who is going to stand at the front who is going to stand at the back who was better in the middle and just provide me with their input because they were the ones having the experience, not me. And then once they’ve done that, and we worked out an order and kind of a starting point, I gave them the autonomy, which I felt at the time was me passing the book, I gave them the autonomy for navigating around. Of course I would I would provide support and assistance where I felt I could assist. But I said to them, you’re the people having to navigate this. You know what it feels like? I think you need to do what you feel best. And they did. And we won. And what I noticed was that the other leaders who were more extroverted, they had moved into directing and instructing because that really was the perception, we were given that the person who’s leading the team, you know, you’re the people getting them getting the team around the course. But actually, that’s where I learned that Leadership isn’t about giving the instruction in the direction as much as empowering the people within that team to bring their best selves to whatever the role is, and collaboratively, collaboratively, achieve the best possible outcome. From that moment onwards, I started gradually it was a slow process. It wasn’t by any means instant. I started to believe more interest more in myself and started to look within and think okay, so what is it that I am good at what are my strengths and how can I leverage those?
Juliet Morris
You talk then about understanding your strengths and leveraging those. So what are the key things that you took away that then catalyse the rest of your journey through work?
Sam Sheppard
So I think that moment was a pivotal moment for me, because it gave me the realisation that there’s not one way to achieve an outcome and that the way that is often perceived as the best way to be isn’t necessarily the best way to be. And I had capabilities and I did actually I didn’t just win the task. I did get selected at that assessment centre to go through and join the company, as a potential leader in the future. That was that was the point in the management traineeship. And yes, that gave me the ability to just kind of sit back and think okay, you know, my experiences have been those who succeed are people who think and behave differently to me, but actually in this example, I succeeded by being nice. Okay, you might have been not intentional, as we talked about, but it was me. And so, what do I bring? And you know, I’ve always performed very well, but we factor academically and in my role, but I haven’t had the recognition. So what can I do to change that? And so gradually, I started identifying my strengths, clarifying what I wanted from my career, because also I fell into teaching. And most of my subsequent roles hadn’t been an active choice. They’ve been a product of circumstance. And so I started thinking about what I actually wanted to do, and what aligned with me because something else that I find was the nine to five doesn’t work for me. And it doesn’t work for me partly on an energy basis as an introvert because in most organisations, especially pre pandemic, nine to five meant in an open office environment, which means incredibly overstimulating, I can’t concentrate, it doesn’t enable me to do my best work and engaging in quite frequent meetings, you know, and conversations with colleagues that kind of thing. That for me was depleting and it did have an impact on my on my wellbeing and my physical and mental health, but also I do have mental health challenges. I suffer from very severe anxiety. And when I’m in full time employment, it burns me out. And so really reaching within and thinking about what do I want from my career? What do I want that to look like? What’s going to enable me to achieve what I want to achieve, but in a way that doesn’t deplete me? That was really important for me, so it’s less about kind of navigating the system as it is a more about finding my own way. And so from 2012 to for a decade now. From that point onwards, I went freelance, and I actually have been up until this year when I when, as I mentioned, I launched my own business. I’ve been working part time for a full time income so I can give my all on the days that I’m working, and then have that balance so that I’m preserving my energy and able to show up as my best self at work.
Juliet Morris
Thank you for sharing that. So, if I may, I’d like to pick up the messaging I guess, around being highly anxious, because I think most people would say when they meet you, you have clearly managed that, well, you you’re very self-aware because that’s not visible. And I think that’s a really important message for everything. What’s going on in the world right now is that we often don’t know what’s going on in people’s lives. You just see people for a short period of time. So how do you manage your time around that? How do you make sure that you’re able to show up as your best self but manage your own health as well?
Sam Sheppard
It’s a good question. And I do agree this is this is an important conversation, especially in the current climate. So as I mentioned, I realised that for me to be able to have impact, but also look after my own house, I had to work part time, not full time. And I mentioned the full-time income. One of the benefits to being freelancer or contractor is your day rate is significantly higher than it would be as an employee, but of course you don’t think at the benefits in sickness absence. However, for me working that way, gave me much more freedom and autonomy over my time. So for example, when I was on the Google project for I remarkable I was working three days a week. Now notionally, I could have done other things I could have built what I’m building now on those two other days. But in terms of my wellbeing, and my mental and physical health, I couldn’t, because that was such an intensive role and time that on those two days, I needed to focus on self-care. You know, things like going out forks and doing things that would help preserve my mental health and just resting and doing a bit like little bits of admin, you know, and I have done ad hoc facilitation and coaching here and there, but not every single week. Not on a consistent basis. And I’ve had to do that because when there was a time where I wasn’t doing that, I ceased the ability to function and I became very, very physically as well as mentally unwell. And I think this is something that people don’t often talk about and you mentioned, what people can visibly see the first year that I moved into delivering training on a freelance basis. When I left the university I got made redundant. That’s when I started my freelance career and I was initially facilitating training to teachers professional development training. I got so anxious and in terms of like performance anxiety, even though all of my feedback was consistently outstanding. It didn’t make logical sense, but this is my anxiety brain. I would get so anxious before any day or I was facilitating training. I would not sleep at all the night before but not even 30 minutes. And I would be physically sick for morning off. And then once that happens, I would get a huge amount of adrenaline get through the day, and yet the feedback was consistently this person has amazing energy. She made it very engaging, and they would didn’t see what was going on, but behind the scenes, which is what you just touched upon. And then I’m remarkable, which I know you’ve experienced, you know, my role there and a lot of people you know, so many facilitate in that role. I had events going on in my personal life. When I was on that project during the COVID period of time, but not necessarily directly related to COVID itself. That meant that there was a period of time where I couldn’t leave my bed. I wasn’t eating I wasn’t functioning, aside from those two hours to facilitate to train the trainer workshop. And for those two hours, I can channel my energy into giving my participants the best possible experience and then I’d have to go back to bed because I could action and that happens over the space of a whole month. So you’re right, the people don’t see really what’s going on for others. And I think it’s nice, first of all, myself included to remind ourselves from time to time, that that is the case and we often as humans are quick to make assumptions about others. And this goes for introverts in the workplace as well. Often assumptions are that they’re quiet because they’re rude or you know, things like that. And then they’re not at all it couldn’t be further from the truth. They’re not accurate assumptions and reminding ourselves that we don’t really know what’s going on unless we ask, well, that person chooses to divulge is important. And the main thing is to always operate from a place of positivity and kindness.
Juliet Morris
Thank you so much. And I do think too, on the other side of that takes us up onto a track of as a side of a conversation is that the people that don’t want to work nine to five, they may not have mental health challenges, they may just want to do that. too. And I’ve seen a huge assumption that people are burnt out or don’t want to do five days a week nine to five in an office because they’ve got mental health challenges. That’s another assumption which is needed to be broken too and taking people as they are and who they are as an individual is the key. Picking up on the nine to five point, Sam, how do you see the future going, you know, going forwards where there’s a pull still from organisations to refer back to nine to five in the office? How do you think that could shift because there are more and more people exiting the workforce, which I think is a terrible shame in so many respects? Because not everyone can start a freelance role. Not everyone wants to start their own business, but how do we make that environment more comfortable for people where people can really excel and thrive at work?
Sam Sheppard
I mean, really, because of the current circumstances now is the time for all organisations to really re-evaluate things like their culture, their values. And the expectations of their workforce. Because as you’ve touched upon, people are leaving at levels that are unprecedented. And organisations who don’t acknowledge that the way to get the best out of your people is to really understand firstly, who your people are, because even if you’re looking at groups of individuals within organisations, and we can take introverts as an example, they’re not a monolith. Even within that group, people are going to be different. They’re going to have different needs. But all the research very strongly confirms that when employees feel valued, and when they recognise as individuals and understood and they are given autonomy of choice, productivity and profits, and you know, all sorts of measurables increase beyond measure so it’s there’s a business case and this shouldn’t need to be a business case. I just want to caveat that business case. For really seriously taking a look within inside an organisation and thinking about what do I know about my workforce with very real you know, about my workforce? How can I ensure that as individuals, I’m enabling them to truly bring their best self to work? And that often means enabling them to be their authentic selves at work, which is a term that’s used quite frequently now. But it tends to be words rather than actions. And people don’t really feel that they can be their authentic selves. And hybrid models, for example, really do have a positive impact on the work on the workforce because then employees have a choice over whether they’re working from home some of the time or you know, the majority of the time and, you know, they’ve got that contact and the office in COVID proved that a hybrid or work for work from home model can work for most organisations, and in addition to fat, from an introverts perspective, most offices are open plan, but providing a quiet space where employees can choose to work from when they feel that they need a quiet space can make a tremendous impact on their wellbeing at work. And normalising taking a lunch break and not having to spend that lunch break with your colleagues. Little things like that. have a huge impact.
Juliet Morris
Yes, it’s nothing like just go for a walk on your own for this.
Sam Sheppard
Often the pressure is if you don’t spend your lunch with your colleagues, you’re being antisocial but it’s not being antisocial. It’s preserving energy. And it’s important.
Juliet Morris
As you were talking what I heard was that you showed up with intention. And understanding yourself was the key to your introversion your high anxiety, but you showed up with the attention and you found your voice in your space. Would you say that’s true?
Sam Sheppard
Absolutely. Yeah. It was the process of learning to understand myself. Really identifying my needs, my values, and my goals. That helped me to step into my authentic self and therefore make choices as I moved forward in my career that aligned with what was authentic for me and enabled me to get my needs fulfilled, as we’ve talked about. And then in doing that, I also had to learn other things like how to set boundaries because that was something I did not excel at, and how it’s painted to voice my needs and my preferences so that I could, I could ensure that I was always aligned with both myself and the direction in which I wanted to go. And that’s really what I meant when I mentioned authentic confidence at the start. It’s that understanding of myself and the value I bring, how to communicate that to others, and how to ensure that I can put boundaries in place so that I’m meeting my own needs but also then able to give to others in a meaningful way.
Juliet Morris
They’re both really great tips for how would people start so people listening to this episode, how would they start in what could they do for themselves?
Sam Sheppard
I mean, the first, the first thing and the most important thing I think, and this can be very difficult is to really create time and space to do that work because it is deep work. You know, it’s, it can look different for different people. For example, I know for many journaling is a very, very powerful process to do this work. But for me, that doesn’t work. So, for me, I do my best thinking walking in nature or even doing something perhaps a little bit more mundane like taking a shower. But I create time and space to just reflect and get in tune with my body so that when I’m making a choice or confronted with a decision, I can really pay attention to what my gut is telling me I get a lightness inside when it’s something that’s aligned, and I get a heaviness when it’s not. And you know, it can be easy not to be wrapped in tune with your body, especially in a society where everyone’s very busy. You know, we’re quite stimulated in a lot of ways but that stillness and that getting into with yourself is the starting point. And then really thinking about the labels that you’ve either given to yourself or others have given to you over the course of your life. I spend some time consciously removing labels that actually no longer apply to me that either given to myself or others or given to me but you kind of hold on to them because they become your identity and you don’t really question it. And I had to do other work as well because my mental health and because as I mentioned, I’m also shy and socially anxious as well as introverted. And around that, really letting go of shame. Because I think again, as humans, we often feel a sense of shame about aspects of ourselves that we feel don’t align with what society tells us we should be like, and it’s letting go of that shame and accepting yourself. And once you’ve accepted yourself, it becomes easier to be kinder to yourself, and then move into the boundary setting because I know that setting boundaries is something that a lot of introverts struggle with. It’s not just a new thing. It’s actually a very common thing that introverts experience.
Juliet Morris
They’re really great tips. How would people start? People listening to this episode, how would they start in that? What could they do for themselves?
Sam Sheppard
I mean, the first the first thing and the most important thing I think, and this can be very difficult is to really create time and space to do that work because it is deep work. You know, it’s, it can look different for different people. For example, I know for many journaling is a very, very powerful process to do this work. But for me, that doesn’t work. So, for me, I do my best thinking, walking in nature or even doing something perhaps a little bit more mundane like taking a shower. But I create time and space to just reflect and get in tune with my body. So that when I’m making a choice or confronted with a decision, I can really pay attention to what my gut is telling me I get a lightness inside when it’s something that’s aligned and I get heaviness when it’s not and you know it can be easy not to be wrapped in tune with your body, especially in a society where everyone’s very busy. And, you know, we’re quite stimulated in a lot of ways, but that stillness and that getting in tune with yourself is the starting point. And then really thinking about the labels that you’ve either given to yourself or that others have given to you over the course of your life. I spend some time consciously removing labels that actually no longer apply to me that either given to myself, What is it given to me but you kind of hold on to them because they become your identity and you don’t really question it. And I had to do other work as well because of my mental health and because as I mentioned, I’m also shy and socially anxious as well as introverted. And around bat, three, free letting go of shame. Because I think, again, as humans, we often feel a sense of shame about aspects of ourselves that we feel don’t align with what society tells us we should be like, and it’s letting go of that shame and accepting yourself. And once you’ve accepted yourself, it becomes easier to be kinder to yourself, and then weave into the boundary setting because I know that setting boundaries is something that a lot of introverts struggle with. It’s not just a me thing. It’s actually a very common thing that introverts experience.
Juliet Morris
I tend to set agreements with yourself. Because boundaries are very fixed and firm. Like you’re almost like putting up a fence. That’s my metaphor around it, you know, you’re financing yourself in. Actually, if you have an agreement, or you know, two or three agreements, how you’re going to show up how you’re going to be how you’re going to live your life, then it feels like you’re accepting that and acknowledging that and taking almost like taking that control you have that you’re setting that standard for yourself.
Sam Sheppard
I love that, and also then if you link to that agreement, just making small promises to yourself could be something as simple as when I wake up, I’m going to drink a glass of water, just one glass of water when I wake up. It’s by keeping those promises that your confidence in yourself rose. Keeping it simple.
Juliet Morris
Yeah, I love those. What’s your big dream for the future?
Sam Sheppard
I’m on a mission to change that workplace bias towards extraversion Juliet so I as we move into the new year I’m really taking quite significant action to work with DEI departments in organisations to improve that intersectional equity and inclusion and to make those small changes that can have significant impact within an organisation because currently, the playing field isn’t level and I want to help level it. And then alongside that, as I mentioned, you know, I’m an advocate for introverts, like myself, so really helping fellow introverts to develop authentic confidence, which is the process that I’ve been doing, because I strongly believe that to achieve success introverts do not need to be more like extroverts or pretend to be more like extroverts. they just need to enhance, not enhance, to understand how to value and communicate who they already are.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
introverts, organisation, agreement, boundaries, labels, extroverts, work, extraversion, tune, accepting, enhance, bias, align, setting, lightness, journaling, process, confidence, people, organisations, introvert, introversion, role, extroverted, gave, navigating, moved, aligned, mental health challenges, thinking, workplace, assumptions, autonomy, authentic selves, workforce